A BURNING ISSUE

When our Free Reformed fathers came to North America they smoked cigars, pipes and cigarettes. They loved to settle down with a nice cup of coffee and an aromatic cigar. We used to say, "You're not a man if you don't smoke". We secretly (or openly?) snickered at those over- zealous Baptists who proclaimed smoking a great evil. However, our ladies were not supposed to smoke, smoking was for men; men were masculine and strong. Men smoked.

But men have also paid the price. For instance, lung cancer is the most common form of malignant tumour of the respiratory tract system, and it began increasing in frequency at an alarming rate about 1940. In 1980 it was the leading cause of cancer deaths in men and today it is also rapidly increasing in women. As a matter of fact, in the mid-80's nearly 6 million new cancer cases and more than 4 million deaths from cancer were being reported world-wide each year. To bring it a little closer to home: about 400,000 Americans die each year from breathing their own smoke. In Ontario, where most of our churches are, over 14,000 residents die every year from smoking-induced lung cancer.

Did you ever stop to think how much grief is caused by so many deaths every year? Many people are fatalistic. They reason that if they will get it, they will get it. They will just "hope for the best." Or they may be optimistic. Just because there is a warning on the label, it doesn't mean that I will get it. Some say: my grandfather became 98 and he smoked like a chimney!

When we talk about smoking, many say that we should not be judgmental about others. You have bad habits too, they say, and therefore, mind your own business! What I do in the privacy of my own home or vehicle is my responsibility and will affect no one else.
Is this true? Will your premature death not affect your loved ones? Doesn't your smoking affect the health of your spouse and children? Do you, by smoking, set a good example for your children? Isn't the likelihood great that they will catch the addiction and become smokers themselves? Can you by smoking be a good Christian witness in your environment? Do you not present a stumbling block to those who are struggling to quit the habit?

Reports about smoking are plentiful. Just ask the lung cancer society and you will have all the statistics you will (n)ever want to know. Let's see what the medical community has to say about smoking.

First some background. Smoking most commonly refers to the practice of inhaling smoke from burning tobacco in a pipe, cigar, or cigarette. American Indians smoked pipes and European explorers introduced the practice into the Old World by the early sixteenth century.
Controversy over the health effects of smoking has existed ever since that time. Cigarette smoke consists of more than 4,700 compounds, 43 of which are carcinogens, such as tar and nicotine--a poisonous alkaloid, which is considered the addicting agent that makes quitting smoking so difficult. Nicotine is an extremely poisonous, colourless, oily liquid alkaloid that turns brown on exposure to air. The most potent ingredient of the tobacco plant, Nicotiniana tabacum, is found mainly in the leaves. Both nicotine and the tobacco plant are named for Jean Nicot, a French ambassador who sent tobacco from Portugal to Paris in 1560. Nicotine can affect the human nervous system, causing respiratory failure and general paralysis. It may be absorbed through the skin. Only two or three drops (less than 50 mg.) of pure alkaloid placed on the tongue is rapidly fatal to an adult. A typical cigarette contains 15 to 20 mg. of nicotine. However, the actual amount that reaches the bloodstream and hence the brain through normal smoking is only about 1 mg. Nicotine is believed to be responsible for most of the short-term and many of the long-term effects of smoking and for the fact that tobacco smoking is such a powerful habit. Nicotine yields of cigarettes have declined by about 70 per- cent since the 1950's, largely due to the popularity of filter-tipped varieties.

By the early 1960's numerous clinical and laboratory studies on smoking and disease had been made. In 1964 a committee appointed by the surgeon general of the U.S. Public Health Service issued a report based on the critical review of previous studies on the effects of smoking. The report concluded that nearly all lung cancer deaths are caused by cigarette smoking, which was also held responsible for many deaths and disabilities from various illnesses such as chronic bronchitis, emphysema, and cardiovascular diseases. A more recent study estimated that about 400,000 Americans die each year from inhaling their own smoke.

As for your non-smoking spouse and children, a 1984 report by the Health Service also suggested that passive inhalation of smoke by non-smokers is very harmful. Although considered controversial at the time, studies have since confirmed these charges. Some experts estimate that passive smoke kills as many as 50,000 Americans a year, and it is the third leading preventable cause of death, behind smoking and alcohol. Studies have shown that children are particularly sensitive to passive smoke and that pregnant women who smoke may harm the fetus. Smoking during pregnancy affects fetal growth and development due to increased carbon monoxide and decreased oxygen in the blood. Babies are smaller, sicker, and more likely to be stillborn. In addition, babies born to women who used drugs during pregnancy may be addicted to the drug at birth.

Should parents of little children continue to smoke? Is this responsible Christian behaviour? Is smoking sin?

Edward T. Welch strongly posits in his book,
Addictions, A Banquet in the Grave, Finding Power in the Hope of the Gospel,

"that we live in a culture that encourages self-indulgence. It should be no surprise that addictions are everywhere. Addiction is not a disease and sin is not a sickness. Scripture emphasizes sex, food, and alcohol (a category which would include modem mind-altering drugs) as the most common addictions and these appetites remain the most prevalent. Yet the list of potential taskmasters is always growing. Addiction was once a term used for the chronic heavy drinker. but over the past two decades its turf has expanded dramatically. Now the list of addictive substances and desires is limited only by our own imagination. as we see here:

anger, alcohol, music, gambling, work, caffeine, love, exercise, nose drops, shoplifting, radio, cocaine, sex, money, lying, chocolate, sleep, nicotine, sports, internet, risk, pain, sugar, success/winning, TV, weightlifting, ipods, pornography, computer games, fashions, gossiping etc.

Some criticize the widening scope of addictions, claiming that when a category expands too much it loses its meaning. But God's Word anticipates the way the term is being applied to more and more behaviors. The thing that drives addictions can be found in every human heart.

For example: we all have had experience with unruly desires that don't take no for an answer. If we are afraid to admit it, we can take our cue from the apostle Paul who said. "1 have the desire to do what is good. but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do" (Rom. 7:18-19). Indeed, "the addiction experience is the human experience." -
This broader view of addictions is important because it challenges us to examine what drives addictions instead of focusing on the particular drug of choice. What is it about our humanness that leaves us susceptible to being overtaken by certain desires? Why do alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, compulsive shoppers, and secret indulgers in pornography crave things that are wrong or unwise? Why do we inordinately desire things that, in themselves, might be legitimate (money, approval from others. comfort) but then become too important to us?

Why do we have a hard time saying no to our desires? Since the answers to these questions strike at the core of our humanness, the biblical teachings are relevant to us all.

Definition of addiction – “ Addiction is bondage to the rule of a substance, activity, or state of mind, which then becomes the center of life, defending itself from the truth so that even bad consequences don’t bring repentance, and leading to further estrangement from God.”

How the addict views his or her addiction:
“We don’t want to be ruled by alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling, food, or anything. No, we just want these substances or activities to give us what we want: good feelings, a better self-image, a sense of power, or whatever our heart is craving.

Idols, however, do not cooperate. Rather than mastering our idols, we become enslaved by them and begin to look like them.”

There is only one way in which sin can be dealt with; there is only one way in which sin can be destroyed! There can be no salvation for those who aren’t convinced of the wickedness of sin. It is only when one acknowledges that his external actions originate from a sinful heart that he will flee to the only Saviour of sinners: the Lord Jesus Christ! It is only by repentance towards God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ that one can ever begin to conquer any sin. This is the only way in which the guilt, punishment, or power of sin can be removed from your life. There is no hope in renaming your sin ‘disease’ – for then you become merely a victim of circumstance. But when you take responsibility for your sins – when you acknowledge your sin – there is forgiveness with the Lord! There is only hope when you call sin, sin! There is no hope when you call sin, disease. "

Since 1964, health warnings have been mandated on tobacco advertising, and the use of such advertising has been restricted. Most of the states in the United States, as well as the Canadian federal government, have passed laws to control smoking in public places such as restaurants and work places, where non- smoking has become the rule. In Toronto and most other cities smoking is banned from all public places. American and Canadian airlines have prohibited smoking on flights. Among the military, the U.S. Army has been particularly strict in imposing smoking restrictions.

Despite the help available from various organizations many people apparently find it impossible to quit smoking. But surely, with God's help, any addiction, including smoking, can be overcome!

Are we getting the message?

The tobacco industry and many smokers regard anti-smoking measures as harassment, whereas many non- smokers defend the measures on the grounds that the government has a duty to discourage harmful practices, that public funds in one form or another are used to treat diseases caused by smoking, and that smokers pollute the air for non-smokers.

Smoking is not only a dangerous addiction, but it is also the source of many ailments and much suffering, both for the smoker, and for the relatives of the smoker who have to assist him or her through the various stages of life-threatening diseases which most smokers experience.

A clinic in one the southern States which specializes in the healing of complicated fractures, found that for (then) unknown reasons, it took twice as long for some patients to heal their bones as it did for others. It did not matter what kind of fracture the client had, but if it normally took, for instance, six months to heal, it would take twice as long for some patients: a full year for exactly the same fracture. This baffled them for quite some time, but after much research it was discovered that the difference was caused by smoking. In each case the non- smokers would heal in half the time. The reasons for this soon became evident. Substantial healing requires great amounts of oxygen. Lungs which are very polluted cannot supply much oxygen, and furthermore, if they are filled much of the time with smoke, resulting from a fire at the end of a cigarette, which uses most of the oxygen they need for their healing process, it is clear that all healing will be greatly delayed.

Some researchers have estimated that if Americans stopped smoking cigarettes, lung cancer deaths could virtually be eliminated within twenty years. Lung cancer has also risen rapidly in developing nations because of the spread of cigarette smoking, so that it has becomes the leading fatal cancer in the world today.

Although cigarette smoke contains many initiating agents, the cessation of smoking results in a negligible risk of lung cancer after a year or so. Can you think of a better incentive to stop smoking?

The evidence that smoking is dangerous and deadly is overwhelming. Yet many of our older people continue to set a poor example for our youth. Also, many young people are starting to smoke. Is it not time to act in a principled manner and decide that smoking is harmful, not only to your own health, but also to the health of your children, especially teen-agers and all who come within the reach of your smoke?

Have we not allowed this terrible practice to go unchallenged far too long? Is it healthy for office bearers to smoke? Do they give a good example to the congregation? How can an elder or pastor who is addicted to nicotine (and thus in bondage) counsel and admonish young people who are enslaved (in bondage) to Rock music?

In light of the above statistics, can there really be any doubt that smoking is harmful to our bodies? Let us hear God's Word on the matter: What, know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's (1 Cor.6:19,20.)

These are searching questions, are they not? Perhaps those who still smoke are unhappy with this article. You may argue that other people have other bad habits. This is probably true. But is this an excuse for your addiction? Admittedly, it is very difficult to break out of an addiction. Despite the help available from various organizations many people apparently find it impossible to quit smoking.

But surely, with God's help any addiction, including smoking can be overcome!

Is it responsible to have part of your resources go up in smoke when you can support a needy child in a developing country for the same amount of money? Even when you can afford to smoke, are you a good steward of your funds when a considerable amount of your money goes up in smoke annually? Is it not better to give it for the cause of the Lord, such as missions or evangelism? It will not cause illness, but instead spread the Gospel!

It seems that in this matter the world is providing better leadership than the church. By banning smoking from all public buildings and areas, the children of this world show they are wiser than the children of light (Luke 16:8). Society has recognized the evil of smoking and its disastrous consequences for the health of the population.
Particularly the effect of second-hand smoke is seen as very dangerous. In light of this, what are we to think of Christian parents who smoke in their home or car and pollute their little ones? It is a fact that many smokers have children who smoke. In many cases they have been introduced to the habit by second-hand smoke and by the example of their parents.

Can we do anything about this matter? Should we do anything? I believe the answer is "yes." Churches which have implemented a NO SMOKING policy on their premises (and I believe that most of our churches have) , are to be commended for their initiative and the love and care shown to their members. This policy shows that as a whole, the church recognizes that this addiction is unethical. But the church can do more:

1) We can pray for those who are addicted to the habit and striving to be delivered.
2) Each church which has not yet done so, may consider banning all smoking from all its premises, inside and outside buildings.
3) Consistories can lead by example and only nominate non-addicted brothers for the office of pastor and elder.
4)Consistories can decide to make smoking and its detrimental health effects on children (especially smoking of mothers-to-be) a topic of discussion at home visitations.
5) Church leaders can sit down with young people who are prone to take up this evil habit and urge them not to do so.
6) Family members and friends can support and encourage their brothers or sisters and so help them in the struggle to find a release from this dangerous addiction.


This is an article reprinted (updated and expanded) from the Messenger of April 1994.
Editor's Note: The following guest editorial is by Mr. Chris Van Doodewaard, a member of the Editorial Committee.

Sexual Detox I: Pornifying the Marriage Bed: Tim Challies

I am going to devote this article to the topic of sex. I want to speak especially to young men, those who are teenagers or dating or engaged or newly married. However, I do hope that anyone can read and enjoy the series, even if the teen years are far behind you. I want to talk to young men as an older man. I would like to think that I’m in a sweet spot between young and old—where I am young enough to remember the troubles and travails of youth but old enough to bring a measure of maturity. I want to be forthright with you and yet I also want to be discreet; I often think we, as Christians, talk entirely too much about sex and in too much detail. You may accuse me of the former simply because I’ve written this series but I hope to remain innocent of the second.


I often thank God that I grew up in the years before the internet was in every home; I’m not sure that I would have handled it very well. It’s not like I’m ancient, either, but my thirty-three years do mean that I was born and raised in a pre-internet world. It is difficult to quantify or even qualify how the world has changed since the web tied us all together into this elaborate network of bits and bytes. There is scarcely an area of life that has remain untouched by it. We do not have the old world plus the Internet; we have a whole new world all around us. Even something as flesh and blood as sex has been radically altered in this digital world.

Teenagers in the 90s were not a lot different from teens today. We wanted the same things—we just had to work a little bit harder to get some of them. If we wanted to see pornography (and we did, of course), the process usually involved at least two kids working in tandem, one of whom would distract a shop keeper while the other would try to steal a magazine from the rack at the back of the store. It was dangerous, high stakes work that, if it went wrong, could easily involve a visit with the police. Times have changed.

Today a teenager needs only to turn on his computer and, within two or three clicks of the mouse, he can have unlimited amounts of pornography available to him. Today it is far more difficult to avoid pornography than it is to find it. It would be literally impossible for one person to watch all of the pornography being created today; there would not be enough hours in the day. Not even close.

Needless to say, teens, and teenaged boys in particular, are quick to take advantage of this pornographic feast. Even pre-teen boys are being drawn into the world of porn. From the first awakenings of a boy’s sexuality, he is being inundated with pornographic images. These are not simple images of naked women as they may have been a couple of generations ago, but are hard core images that often extend to what is base and degrading. The sexuality of a whole generation of children is being formed not by talks with their parents, not by reading the kind of book I was given as a young man, but by professional pornographers who will do anything, anything!, to fuel the increased desire for increased depravity.

This is the very nature of sin, isn’t it? Sin is always progressive in nature. If you give it an inch, it soon seeks to take a mile. Sin is never content, but always seeks and desires more. Have you ever been scared by your sin? Perhaps there was a time that you saw how a particular sin was taking you over. Maybe you had thought you were in control of your sin but suddenly found that, almost in an instant, it had increased to the next level. You were no longer in control—sin was leading the way and you were more and more just along for the ride, obeying the impulses of the flesh. This is a terrifying place to be and I believe everyone has experienced it at one time or another.

I know beyond doubt that many, many young (and middle-aged and old) men can testify to the power of pornography in taking over. The first glimpse of porn may be fleeting—intriguing but short-lived. A naked body is all the eye needs to see and it provides plenty of fuel for a while. But before long the heart craves more. What was once satisfying is now boring; what was once repulsive is suddenly desirable. Along the way, a person’s whole perception of sex is changed. No longer is sex simple intercourse between a man and a woman. Instead it becomes a series of acts, even acts that are in some way uncomfortable or degrading. Pornography teaches that sex is everything but intimate face-to-face, body-to-soul contact between willing spouses. And, as they say, life soon imitates “art.” Young men enter into marriage with their minds full of pornographic images and their hearts filled with the desire to fulfill pornographic fantasies.

A short time ago I read an article by a woman who considered herself a feminist. She insisted that she enjoyed sleeping with men and thought little of sleeping with a continual succession of men. Yet she shared what for her was a growing concern. More and more, she said, the men she slept with had no real interest in her at all. They simply wanted her to act like a porn star for their benefit. They were using her to do little more than act out their pornography. There was no tenderness, no desire for shared intimacy, and certainly no love. They simply used her body as a means to a very immediate end. This, she saw, was very quickly becoming the new norm. She was disgusted by it but saw that her feminist worldview gave her no real recourse, no effective means of explaining her disgust, her discomfort.

What seemed clear is that a generation of men, drowning in a cesspool of porn, has a new set of expectations for what they want from women. They want women to subdue their own selves in order to act like porn stars. The women walk away feeling like little more than prostitutes.

In the new bestseller SuperFreakonomics Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner spend almost an entire chapter investigating the economics of prostitution. They make many interesting observations, not the least of which is based on comparisons in the relative pricing between sex acts in the past and sex acts today. It seems that the taboo nature of certain acts has always claimed a certain premium. Yet “taboo” is a moving target. What was forbidden in the past, and hence what was expensive, is today so mainstream that the price has fallen substantially. What was once the most expensive act is today among the least expensive. Acts that were once taboo because of their exceedingly intimate or vulgar and degrading nature are now accepted as legitimate forms of sexual expression in any relationship. What would by any other standard be considered “normal” is now too undesirable, too boring. It has been replaced by the invasive, the degrading.

Pornography is inherently violent, inherently unloving. It is a perversion of sexuality, not a true form of it, and one that teaches violence and degradation at the expense of mutual pleasure and intimacy. It is about conquests, about conquering. It is the very opposite of God’s intention for sex. It tears love from sex, leaving sex as the immediate gratification of one’s most base desires. It lives beyond rules and ethics and morality. It exists far beyond love. And yet countless young men, Christian young men, are coming into marriage bringing with them all of this pornographic baggage.

Having seen thousands of sex acts in a pornographic setting, they load the porn star expectation upon their wives. The young husband assumes or demands that his wife will be willing to do anything, that she will do it all with the proper joy and encouragements, and that she will be as willing and eager and skilled as the women he has seen on the screen.

My great concern with young men today (which is really more a concern for their young wives) is that they may perhaps inadvertently or perhaps intentionally pornify the marriage bed. They may bring impurity to the pure, selfishness to the selfless. Having given themselves over to pornography, they have had their whole perception of sexuality altered, shaped by professional pornographers. They may be imposing on their young brides the impossible expectation of a porn star.

With the vast majority of young men having been exposed to pornography (at least 90% according to recent studies), with a large percentage of them having been addicted to it and with many enjoying it still as they enter into marriage, they need to have their understanding and their expectations reset according to the One who created sex.

Many young men need a kind of sexual detox before they are equipped to be the kind of pure, loving, attentive, sacrificial husbands that God calls them to be. In this series of articles I hope to help young men reorient their understanding of sex, both in the big picture and in the act itself, according to God’s plan for this great gift.


Source:
Sexual Detox I: Pornifying the Marriage Bed

1. Chelsey
October 26, 2009
9:19 AM

Thanks so much for this series. I’ve been married about six months and while I’m a female, I’m definitely looking forward to hearing more about this topic from an older saint who has much more wisdom than I or my husband do.

2. Dan
October 26, 2009
9:30 AM

I grew up like you did, in the pre-internet days, but I caught on fast after that and almost ruined everything. That’s as much as I’ll admit in this forum, but let me tell you that detox is much worse after you’re married than before, so I hope that your younger readers take you up on your offer of this sort of mentorship-by-distance and learn from you.

I’m very humbled by your post and I look forward to learning more from you myself.

3. Drew K
October 26, 200910:00 AM

Kudos to you Tim for taking on this important and pervasive issue. It is not fun but necessary partof the Lord purifying His church.

4. marriagejunkie
October 26, 2009
10:32 AM

Spot on! Going to RT on Twitter and link on the site for my book, Before “I Do”. (http://fullmarriageexperience.com) A real concern for young (and old) marriages and an issue to address for most young grooms to know about. Kudos and thanks!

5. Candice
October 26, 2009
10:36 AM

Tim, thanks for taking on this topic. I know as a wife affected by porn that it is a powerful tool that the enemy loves to use to tear down men and tear the hearts of their wives apart, too. Satan loves to whisper to men that it will only affect them, and that they aren’t hurting anyone but themselves. I look forward to reading your series that is setting out to debunk that lie.

6. Anonymous
October 26, 2009
10:54 AM

so are your next articles going to list out a “sexual detox” program?

7. Alan
October 26, 2009
10:56 AM

This was good, and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. One thing I would add goes right in line with the major points of this post.

Once the pornstar expectations are placed on a wife, and she comes up short, it leads to more involvement in pornography to fill the void left by the non-pornstar wife. This only deepens the problem all the way around. The sin goes further, and the expectations become greater on the wife, who will have a harder time fulfilling these new expectations. And on and on it goes.

The whole thing seems so harmless at the very first, and yet it is so incredibly lethal to a person’s soul and marriage—if not more.

8. Dave Dunbar
October 26, 2009
11:00 AM

It is right to carefully address an insidious attack by the enemy upon Christians. Thank you, Tim.

One of the things that men need to remember is the pictures aren’t “real”. What I mean is that our standard of beauty is falsely affected by the parade of perfect bodies on TV, movies, etc. Even then, what percentage of pictures are photo-shopped? In other words, the perfect pictures have been altered, and do not reflect reality.

Or in the case of movies, the women involved in vile acts ACT like they enjoy it, but they are paid actresses (or porn stars, or whatever), and their false enjoyment of degrading activities in no way indicates that an honest and holy wife would enjoy such defilement of the marriage bed.

Please keep up the good work on this series of articles. Just taking a guess, this could become a popular and widely-read (and helpful!) series.

9. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
11:07 AM

so are your next articles going to list out a “sexual detox” program?

Pretty much. Then plan is to replace truth with lies.

Once the pornstar expectations are placed on a wife, and she comes up short, it leads to more involvement in pornography to fill the void left by the non-pornstar wife. This only deepens the problem all the way around. The sin goes further, and the expectations become greater on the wife, who will have a harder time fulfilling these new expectations. And on and on it goes.

Exactly so. This is the consistent pattern of sin, isn’t it? It spirals, it twists, it is never satisfied.

10. BigNorm
October 26, 2009
11:18 AM

Great Post.

As a newly-wed, we fought hard for a blank canvas to build our marriage on, including keeping the bedroom pure.

Divine innovation and creativity is the ONLY way to go for marriage.

Loving it.
N

11. Matthew
October 26, 2009
11:30 AM

“Pornography is inherently violent, inherently unloving. It is a perversion of sexuality, not a true form of it, and one that teaches violence and degradation at the expense of mutual pleasure and intimacy. It is about conquests, about conquering.”

I think you might be looking at the wrong kind of porn. There is some good stuff out there that is not violent or degrading. Don’t let the bad stuff spoil you on the rest.

Pornography and masturbation can have a role in a healthy marriage. It is very unlikely that you and your spouse will have the same appetite: allowing one of you to have some extra release can reduce the pressure on the other to perform when not in the mood.

12. Mike D
October 26, 2009
11:33 AM

Scripture itself teaches the bondage that sexual sin brings. After speaking of the sin of adultery and of some of the repurcussions (Proverbs 5), Solomon adds the following (v. 22)…”he will be HELD with the CORDS of his sin.”

There is an enslaving nature attached to sexual sin. By God’s grace I have been kept from it in large measure, but I have seen it wrap its tenticals around many a man and not relinquish. There is a reason that Solomon also says or the adulteress in verse 5 of that same chapter, “Her feet go down to death, her steps lay hold of hell.”

I am glad you are talking about it, Tim. But please encourage FATHERS to do their duty as watchmen upon the city wall - warning their children of this decieitful enemy. It is time for men, as heads of their households, to call sin what it is, and to be as the angel with the flaming sword, not allowing his family or his friends down that path, God giving him help. This duty should also be pressed upon SHEPHERDS of the flock of God, that they might watch over the souls that God has put under their charge.

May God give you help as you seek to chart a course - faithfully dealing with prevailing sin and men’s souls AND yet not giving such detail and content as would prove a carnal feast to our remaining flesh.

Matt. 11:12…”the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.” May God give us grace to do battle. It is a war. May God give us grace to deal ruthlessly with our remaining sin and the sin that so easily besets us. May we be willing to go to all extremes to be rid of it - even to such extremes as represented by an eye plucked out and a hand cut off. As Christ said, such extremes might be necessary if we would enter heaven.

13. Rodica
October 26, 2009
11:35 AM

what about writing a book on this topic? Haven’t seen a good book to recommend to someone with this problem. The book shelves may have many books on pre-marriage and marriage counseling yet I have not seen one that focuses squarely on this topic. Can you suggest any?

14. Ken Davis
October 26, 2009
11:37 AM

“I want to talk to young men as an older man … my thirty-three years…” - Well - you’re older than somebody.

15. Bonnie
October 26, 2009
11:40 AM

Thank you for addressing this topic. From my vantage point (being of a certain age, married 22 years, with a teenaged son), I wonder whether ubiquitous p*rn has simply ramped up something that men are already tempted toward. Even without taking it to base extremes, and absent p*rn, a young man can still develop a selfish sexual view toward women. Later he might be unloving and subtly degrading to his wife because he views her as a means to satisfy his fantasies rather than someone to relate with.

I think it’s important that young men, from the time they are small children, learn to view others, especially their female peers, in terms of relationship as fellow human beings, rather than objects of any type, sexual or otherwise. They need to be guided to learn how to express themselves properly across the board, so that they will be able to do so properly sexually as well, when the time comes. And yes, parents need to talk to their kids about sex, from an early age and age-appropriately, so they grow up to hold it in proper regard.

In this way, when temptation comes, they have strong values to hold onto, and character training from an early age which has strengthened them.

16. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
11:42 AM

I think you might be looking at the wrong kind of porn. There is some good stuff out there that is not violent or degrading. Don’t let the bad stuff spoil you on the rest.

Matthew - the foundational “badness” in pornography is not the violence. Pornography is bad simply because already it inflames the heart to adultery. Jesus says that adultery is not simply the act of sleeping with another person, but is as much as a lustful thought about another person. It is impossible to watch pornography and not be incited to lust. The whole point of pornography, even pornography that is “normal” as opposed to violent, is to incite sin.

Pornography and masturbation can have a role in a healthy marriage. It is very unlikely that you and your spouse will have the same appetite: allowing one of you to have some extra release can reduce the pressure on the other to perform when not in the mood.

Let’s just call this what it is—a man’s justification to look at porn and masturbate. Why even bother rationalizing?

17. Christina
October 26, 2009
11:47 AM

Thank you for taking this topic on. Until the church starts addressing these issues with the gospel of Jesus Christ we can have no hope that our culture will change. I look forward to this series.

18. Polarbear
October 26, 2009
12:12 PM

Thank you Tim for this post and I look forward to the series this week. This pornification of the marriage bed is perhaps the number one tool that the enemy is using to destroy Christian marriages.

Matthew, I am praying for you man.

19. Jerry
October 26, 2009
12:29 PM

Greetings,
I am excited about this series and will send the link to everyone I know. I think that this topic is of the utmost importance. There should be more conversations about this issue in our local churches. Maybe this will get some to start talking about it.

20. Eddy Alexandre
October 26, 2009
12:51 PM

I will be waiting…

21. Jerod
October 26, 2009
1:00 PM

Great post Tim. This is a deadly sin that so many times stays hidden and is not discussed. Church culture needs to change so that it’s ok to not be ok. Otherwise we will continue to hide sin and not find healing from it.

I hid for a long time. Bringing it to light by talking about it and confessing is extremely difficult, but the only place to find freedom and healing from it. (James 5:16) God forgives, and it’s through confession to one another we find healing!

22. Tom W.
October 26, 2009
1:29 PM

Wow, Matthew. That whole approach is wrong on so many levels; to add to Tim’s reply, consider this verse in your approach to sexual intimacy with your wife:
“Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; “
(Philippians 2:3)

23. Mike D
October 26, 2009
1:41 PM

Rodica…

…you asked about a good book on this subject.

I would recommend a small book by Randy Alcorn entitled…
The Purity Principle: God’s Safeguards for Life’s Dangerous Trails (LifeChange Books).

If you want an excerpt from the book, you can go here…
http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/Randys_books_excerpts_from_Randys_books/Chapter_5_and_6_from_the_Purity_Principle.shtml

It is a small book and an easy read. I hope this helps…

24. Kath
October 26, 2009
1:44 PM

Please, please don’t overlook that this is a very serious issue for women too, too often men in the church have at this point in the porn conversation effectively told women to close their ears because this won’t affect them. The thing is it does. It’s a real and even more taboo struggle for many women who feel unable to be honest about all this because so many people hold the expectation that only men struggle with this. I’m tired of hearing pastors tell me that only the men should listen at these point. Women struggle in this area. Sure, we may struggle differently but it is no less pervasive and all the more dangerous because it’s a whole lot more harder to be honest about it.

25. Josh Reich
October 26, 2009
1:45 PM

Great post.

I just preached a message in a marriage series on pornography and what it does in a marriage. To go with that, my wife and I wrote on how a wife can handle her husband’s addiction and how to find healing: http://missionalthoughts.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/how-a-wife-handles-her-husbands-sexual-addiction/. This comes out of our personal experience and our story and how it shaped our marriage.

Looking forward to the rest of the series.

26. An Honest Question
October 26, 2009
2:14 PM

very needed stuff. excellent post. I would be interested, however, how you develop “right sex” from “porn star sex” in marriage. in Song of Solomon the couple seem to delight in pleasing one another, and she even dresses to delight his eyes. you mention “face to face intimacy” as if any other kind of sexual position might be wrong.

asking your wife to act like a porn star is obviously wrong but just what are the rules? if it delights a husband for his wife to wear “frilly pajamas” (so to speak!) is that wrong of him to ask her to do so? if the wife likes a man with a beard is it wrong for her to ask him to grow one? just how far is one obligated to go to bring sexual pleasure to their mate? I think that is an area a lot of marriage could use some help with. hope you will be able to address that.

27. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
2:18 PM

asking your wife to act like a porn star is obviously wrong but just what are the rules?

I am planning on covering some of that in a couple of days. There is a bit of ground work first, but we’ll get there.

you mention “face to face intimacy” as if any other kind of sexual position might be wrong.

I don’t mean to be a prude! I more just mean that there are things you can do in sex that personalize it (even without being nose-to-nose) and others that de-personalize it.

28. Grace
October 26, 2009
2:46 PM

Tim,

Looking forward to reading more!

29. Anonymous
October 26, 2009
2:46 PM

Thanks Kath for bringing to light that women struggle too. I am thankful Tim is addressing this issue.

30. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
2:49 PM

Please, please don’t overlook that this is a very serious issue for women too, too often men in the church have at this point in the porn conversation effectively told women to close their ears because this won’t affect them. The thing is it does.

I have purposely targeted this series to young men because I feel that I understand young men. I am not far removed from being one myself. I have infinitely less experience being a young woman so I hesitate to speak out about such things. However, I do think much of what I say will apply either way. If pornography is shaping a man’s expectation of his wife, it will also shape a wife’s expectation of her husband. And in either case, the solution will be to repent of sin and to replace sin with truth. So do stay tuned. I hope you’ll find the rest of the series relevant.

31. Neil King
October 26, 2009
3:08 PM

Like many others who have already commented, I really appreciate that you’re dealing with this issue, Tim. It’s the area of my life where I can mostly sympathise with Paul when he cries out ‘Who will save me from this body of death?’

In a way, I can thank God for the struggles I have with sexual sin. Obviously, this isn’t because He gave me these evil desires, which is a blasphemous idea to contemplate, but rather that I am constantly struggling with them rather than having them removed, because I truly know that my strength in overcoming sexual sin can only come from Him alone, and not from my own efforts. It is a constant reminder for me that the Christian life is not a holiday; rather it is a day-by-day, hour-by-hour, minute-by-minute struggle that we cannot hope to succeed in without God’s grace and mercy.

32. Rodica
October 26, 2009
4:31 PM

Mike D.
thanks for the book recommendation. After scanning the excerpt, I found it to be a very useful book to read, and to pass along to the young men and women in my family life.

…also, planning on passing on the full text of this article series , once complete, to family and friends. I agree with all other comments that speaking truth on this issue, at this time, is very warranted and very welcome.

33. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
4:34 PM

“Pornography is bad simply because already it inflames the heart to adultery.”

I’d blame the heart so inflamed, not the fuel.

If it weren’t porn leading to adultery, it’d be something else.

Until one can control vices, no matter the form, one is in danger of being weak and suspect, hypocritical and wicked… all while blaming the vice instead of one’s own character.

34. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
5:00 PM

I’d blame the heart so inflamed, not the fuel.

While I know what you are getting at, that is a bit of a silly line to take, I think. I’ll grant that pornography is not morally culpable (porn has no soul, will not go to hell, etc) it is still evil simply because it distorts and perverts. It is a medium used to share evil.

35. Tim Irvin
October 26, 2009
5:19 PM

I have to agree, whole-heartedly, with Daniel (#33). A man isn’t a thief because he steals, he steals because he is a thief already in his heart.
Any married person who turns to porn, even if they say they’re just curious, is doing so because adultery is already in their heart.
Discussion is not what is needed. Reproof is what is needed.
Ephesians 5:11-12

36. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
5:26 PM

“[Porn] is a medium used to share evil.”

With all due respect, Tim, so is religion. So what?

37. mark
October 26, 2009
5:27 PM

nice try on I’d blame the heart so inflame, not the fuel.”

however porn has no legit use of any kind. it’s express purpose is to incite lust. thus it can be blamed because there is no good thing to be said for it.

and while certainly granting that a heart that is not right with God will find other avenues of sin it is foolish to think that we can’t help the problem by pointing out how depraved this “fuel” really is, and all the effects that come from “consuming” it.

38. Anonymous, please
October 26, 2009
5:38 PM

As a redeemed sinner, one who - pre-conversion - became a feminist “out of necessity”, feeling abandoned by a husband who acted as if I were there to support him and be a playtoy at the same time, and then he would wondered why I began to shudder every time he even touched my shoulder, with both of us investigating what could be wrong with ME and why I was suddenly so frigid; and after the divorce, learning that I was anything but frigid, but became a misandrist due to exactly this sort of thing, I can recall lamenting that it seemed that men got their sex education from the skin flicks. There is nothing more dehumanizing than to be expected to live up to that expectation, and to have all sense of worth and value placed upon my ability to perform in that manner. The sheer selfishness inherent in that kind of mindset destroys women, it destroys marriages, and it destroys families.

39. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
5:46 PM

@mark (37.) :

How nice it must be to eradicate one’s life of all inciters and stimulus. :)

I can imagine a life worth living here on planet earth with no lust, no thirst, no desire to escape, no groove to satiate one’s need to grind on the dancefloor, no poetry to open a soul nor images to affect a heart, no food on which to gorge oneself.

Oh, wait… no I can’t.

“Porn” is what you make of it… one man’s porn is another man’s marital aid. One man’s joint is another man’s nausea helpmate. One man’s celebratory feast is another’s gluttonous escapade. One man’s justified vindication is another’s cold-blooded murder. The vice/method/tool/path is not evil. A man’s heart can be. Can be.

40. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
5:54 PM

@Anonymous, please (38.) :

“There is nothing more dehumanizing than to be expected to live up to that expectation, and to have all sense of worth and value placed upon my ability to perform in that manner.”

While your personal story is, indeed, sad and regrettable… there are more than a few experiences more dehumanizing than being expected perform like a porn star.

Just off the top of my head : think of being sold as a child sex slave; actual rape; or, you know, enjoying a spontaneous, free, and unplanned vacation in Dachau or Auschwitz circa 1939.

41. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
6:03 PM

Daniel - You’ve made your view well known. I think it’s probably a good idea for you to back off a bit now. You aren’t going to convince people here of what you’re saying.

42. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
6:05 PM

@Tim :

fair enough… all meant in the interest of honest discussion, please know that. :)

I’ll still be reading, with interest.

43. Anonymous, please
October 26, 2009
6:51 PM

Daniel,

You are correct. It’s the end of a long day, and I surely have misspoken to a degree, though perhaps you don’t know what it is to participate in some very dark situations just to please someone enough to keep a roof over your head (again, pre-conversion). But the coldness and callousness that comes through in your response to me is exactly the kind of attitude that makes it very clear that you don’t get it, and that you clearly have no desire to. As a result of all this, I was once quite heavily involved in the whole thing, not realizing it then but after a couple of decades of that kind of expectation, my attractiveness to the opposite sex and my ability to gain and hold their interest in that way was the only place I had any sense of any kind of worth - and I hated it, and I hated men because of it. One thing I think a lot of men really don’t understand, is the reality of the anatomy of it. Physically, it is an external act for you; for a woman it is internal; we are literally taking another person into ourselves.

Reading through this discussion thread, the one thing that stands out to me more than anything is that we in our flesh will do anything we can to justify our sin and hold onto our idols, muddying up the clear counsel of God on the matter of sin (if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out - so it doesn’t matter if your lust makes you look at porn, or your porn causes you to lust, it’s all sin, so just throw out the porn and seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.)

It wasn’t until recently, since Christ saved me (just last year!) that I have come to see a glorious picture of the Gospel in God’s design for the marriage relationship, and while I do believe that I am not a candidate for dating/marriage given the words of Christ, I love its design and I pray for the marriages of those around me. Here’s the thing I see - If marriage is intended to be a reflection of the relationship between Christ and His church (His Bride), and the intimacy involved in that is intended to be a reflection of the unity between Christ and Christians (John 17) just as it is a reflection of the unity within in the Trinity, and if the covenant of marriage is intended to reflect the covenant between God and His people, then any turning away to satisfy the flesh in a cheapened version of the real thing just - to me - makes porn look like a golden calf, or maybe Asherim. It is not for no reason that God calls it adultery when His people turn to the world and to the flesh instead of to Himself, and He calls out lust as adultery, and I think too of the fact that Christ loves His Bride, He gave Himself up for her, He died for her, and if one’s spouse is a part of that Bride, and you’re (I say “you” in a general way) abusing that relationship (or that spouse) in that way, choosing to sow to the flesh rather than to the Spirit when intimacy is not possible, or if there is a refusal to submit to one another, then there is Another who is angry at you, whether the other spouse is (yet) or not.


44. DR
October 26, 2009
7:15 PM

Mark Driscoll wrote on this subject - Porn Again Christian - downloadable or read online. http://relit.org/porn_again_christian/

May you be given wisdom Tim to stick to scripture and grace on this subject and be succinct.

At 33yo I would not say you are an old man - you’re still young!

45. Mike Toreno
October 26, 2009
7:33 PM

I’m glad you wrote this, your view of the effects of pornography is so true! I don’t have any problem with pornography, but I have experienced an analogous issue. Last year I started watching Bollywood movies, and they have caused me to bring unrealistic expectations to my everyday experiences. Now, whenever any kind of significant event happens, I am disappointed whenever a group of singers and dancers fails to converge and put on a big production number. Just as with pornography, my viewing of Bollywood pictures has caused me to become dissatisfied with ordinary life. And it’s just the same whatever anyone reads, hears, or views. A lot of my friends read “Arabian Nights” and are now dissatisfied with ordinary, non-flying carpets.

46. Yooper
October 26, 2009
7:51 PM

Despite popular belief, there is no such thing as safe sin.

47. kitchen table
October 26, 2009
10:05 PM

I also grew up in the pre-internet days. Sex in my teenage years is not as easy as it is now. And internet has been a big factor for that. We thought what we are doing are not sinful because it is like everybody is doing it, too.

48. ANON
October 26, 2009
11:23 PM

A few observations Tim:
1. Please think of another name for this series. “Sexual Detox” sounds so humanistic and ‘program’ orientated. There is nothing wrong with appropriately expressed God - given human sexuality, within the confines of marriage. In fact it’s a wonderful blessing! Sexual expression within marriage needs no “detox”. For young men (and maybe women) who find themselves addicted to porn or whatever tickles their lust of the flesh … have done with sin!

2. You want to speak to young men you say … well let me tell you that some of us here are older men who have struggled all our Christian lives with the temptations of lust, of committing fornication with the eyes and our minds, of abusing our bodies, of misusing the organs meant for sexual pleasure for our wives and ourselves within the marital bed. The locusts have eaten the years which should have been spent with the wife of one’s youth and given them the second best.

3. The sins of the flesh are rampant but well concealed from one another within the church. I sometimes wonder as I hear some great preacher-teacher whether they too are beset with the same sins we’re taking about here. Having preached - do they then go home to secretly view porn somewhere? (Actually I have heard mature Christian business men - one a Christian bookseller admit that they have to work so hard to keep their mind-heart in check when away from their wife - once it was the temptation of a playboy at the newsagent, for another watching porn movies in the hotel whilst they were away…)

4. The devil wants all Christians dead…. he wanted Adam and Eve dead and he many a Christian man, he has made dead (in ministry and marriage and godliness).


If you are a young man (or woman) - this sounds like a “must read” series and may God give us all grace, and may we be men (and women) of conviction to do that which is right. have done with sin! His grace is sufficient!

49. Jennifer
October 27, 2009
1:56 AM

To Annon, please
I am praising the Lord for the work He has done in you and in your life! He is so good and merciful! I loved your words and hope you keep contributing.
To Tim
Thank you so much for putting your eloquence to this difficult subject. We have three boys and a girl and need to hear what you have to say. I will be praying for you as you craft these posts.
God Bless you.

50. J. B. Hood
October 27, 2009
8:52 AM

Tim,

What is the feminist writer who noted the pornification of sex in the men she was with, and where was that article?

Thanks

51. C
October 27, 2009
10:13 AM

I would like to address Daniel. Porn is indeed evil. It work solely to give people sexual (and not at all spiritual) release one-on-one, when sex is designed to be communion.
Calling out think about all the worse things like rape and child abuse and genocide… that is absurd. Absolutely absurd and pardon, but I would hope you try to purge your soul of the devil working through you.This is an important discussion for everyone to hear, and your comments through it seek only to protect the sin everyone struggles against.
What would you say to a woman who has been sexually assaulted and raped, but not killed? “Don’t focus on that, because it has been a lot worse for others?” That is the same as saying porn is not bad when you look at everything else bad in the world. For shame.
And porn and masturbation are not ok. I have been in the mood when he is not, and I wait or relive in my mind memories that belong to the two of us. To tun to another avenue and leave him out of such a beautiful thing, and to create for me a sexual memory that excludes him, would be to cheat on him and on God, and is wrong.

As for sex itself, when everyone was talking on face-to-face etc, I can speak from personal experience on that. There are a myriad of positions and acts, but when each one is a gift that you give to each other, you feel as pure and whole if you face a pillow or are under covers as when you face each other. The sex acts are acts of love, and when you truly love your partner (or man for me, since I’m a woman), any of them feel like gifts. If it didn’t, you would feel dirty whenever an act was pleasuring one or the other of you, and it doesn’t. If you’re the one giving, the act turns you on as well because you know what you give and how much you light him up, and when he gives to you you know its from the heart and it feels that way. I always feel like a beacon at the close of our sessions, and very close to God, and I think that’s the purpose, to honor and fulfill one another in the eyes of God.

I don’t know if you can post this Tim, since I suppose I’m mildly graphic, but I think it’s important to let people know.

A good standard, for me, I remember telling my younger brother when he got his first girlfriend and was struggling with where the line was, I told him to only do what you were comfortable with God knowing you’re doing. God has to be present.

The sexual relationship- God gave it to us, and it should be held in highest esteem and regard, not degraded and perverted by the obscene and base in pornography.

The same act in a willing marriage partnership and in porn would be entirely different, because one is a mutual glorification, and one a degradation.

52. Brian Roden
October 27, 2009
11:43 AM

Some books to recommend:

The Game Plan: The Men’s 30-Day Strategy for Attaining Sexual Integrity by Joe Dallas
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Plan-Strategy-Attaining-Integrity/dp/0849906334/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256658066&sr=8-4

At the Altar of Sexual Idolatry by Steve Gallagher
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Plan-Strategy-Attaining-Integrity/dp/0849906334/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256658066&sr=8-4

Think Before You Look: 40 Powerful Reasons to Avoid Pornography by Daniel Henderson
http://www.amazon.com/Think-Before-You-Look-Pornography/dp/0899571646/ref=pd_sim_b_1

53. Traylor Lovvorn
October 27, 2009
3:19 PM

Tim-

Thank you for this wonderful post and for addressing the growing epidemic coming at the Church like a tsunami. In my experience, the Church has not talked enough about sex and therefore has created a vacuum that has allowed most of our education about sex to come, as you say, from the pornographers.

The silence of the Church and unwillingness to talk frankly about this subject has robbed many couples of a proper understanding of sex in their relationship. In a series of articles that have come out over the last few months, many Church leaders are even proposing that the solution is to encourage marriage at an earlier age. The sentiment seems to be that if we get kids married earlier then they’ll get to have sex and we won’t have to live with the tension of how to properly address the issue.

I am a recovering sex addict who lost my wife and family after 11 years of marriage because of my addiction. After six years of divorce, God miraculously reconciled my ex wife and I. (Our Story) I facilitate a sexual addiction recovery group and work with many couples and individuals who are living in the pain and brokenness that this epidemic brings.

I look forward to reading your upcoming posts and appreciate you dealing head-on with this all important topic!

Traylor

54. Brad
October 27, 2009
3:33 PM

“Pornography and masturbation can have a role in a healthy marriage. It is very unlikely that you and your spouse will have the same appetite: allowing one of you to have some extra release can reduce the pressure on the other to perform when not in the mood.”

Matthew - can I humbly encourage you to read this article: http://ccef.org/its-all-about-me-problem-masturbation. It really challenged my thinking on the subject, and specifically addresses your scenario.

55. Melanie
October 27, 2009
3:54 PM

Where I live when a man is arrested for picking up a prostitute he is sent to “John School” where he will hear the first hand testimony of former prostitutes that they do not enjoy their trade. It is a BIG, BOLD, LIE to believe that women working in any form of the sex trade are there by choice and because they like it. An overwhelming amount of those women were molested as young girls and have been abused and used their whole lives.
Annie Lobert shares her story on her site (http://www.hookersforjesus.net/anniestestimony.cfm):
“Sex for money is NOT pleasurable, it is NOT fun, us girls DO NOT enjoy it—in fact there were many times I just wanted to hurt the man that was touching me! … I had to be the best actress all of time just to make sure I got paid—men actually thought I enjoyed what I did. How could men think this? It was a flat out LIE! This is SEXUAL ABUSE in its worst form—a jail cell of your mind….Many times I just wanted to die when I went to sleep at night after I worked, I felt so dirty, sleazy—I felt had no way out—because…who would actually RESPECT me or let alone LOVE ME if they found out what I did for a living?”

56. J.P.H.
October 28, 2009
10:52 AM

Melanie- While I’m certainly not going to disagree with you on whether prostitutes “enjoy” the actual act of prostituting themselves, I do think some folks do it “by choice”. I recently read an article about a phenomenon in Hong Kong where high school age girls are prostituting themselves for money to buy clothes, fancy cell phones, etc. If the article is to be believed, they aren’t from the demographic one would normally expect prostitutes to come from. They’re middle class, stable family situation, etc. And not all of them become “career prostitutes”.

After some digging, here’s the article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/09/24/hongkong.teenage.prostitution/

57. Daniel Holter
October 28, 2009
2:42 PM

@ C (51.) :

Thanks for your response, but I think it’s safe we say we’ll disagree on just about everything regarding the issue at hand. I’ll respect Tim’s wishes and not further a discussion that will likely run (far) off course from his intended topic.

I’m curious, though, how I might “try to purge [my] soul of the devil working through [me].” If you want to pray for me, feel free… or to offer some advice directly, you can reach me by clicking my name.

58. Tim Challies
October 28, 2009
4:16 PM

While I’m certainly not going to disagree with you on whether prostitutes “enjoy” the actual act of prostituting themselves, I do think some folks do it “by choice”.

There are definitely some of both. I would think that the vast majority are in it through force or through perceived necessity (“I have to feed my kids somehow…” or “I need to earn money to support my habit…”). The percentage who would be in it fully voluntarily would be very small. And even then I suspect many of them would come from backgrounds that, in one way or another, would have nudged them toward it, perhaps through abuse or another factor. Prostitution is just so far from God’s design for women that it takes a remarkable hardening of God-given feminine instincts for a women to give herself to it and to enjoy it.

59. Brian
October 28, 2009
5:51 PM

Tim, can you expand on what you mean when you say

I want to be forthright with you and yet I also want to be discreet; I often think we, as Christians, talk entirely too much about sex and in too much detail.

On the face of it I have an exactly opposite view and would love to know what you’re referring to here.

60. Jake Aharonian
October 29, 2009
1:26 AM

JB—I think you mean the article by Naomi Wolf http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/

61. Tim Challies
October 29, 2009
9:00 AM

I want to be forthright with you and yet I also want to be discreet; I often think we, as Christians, talk entirely too much about sex and in too much detail.

Well, maybe the first part isn’t entirely true. Sometimes I think that we talk about it too much these days (e.g. all these sex sermon series being preached in churches today). And I am definitely convinced we often do so in too much detail (and here a series like Driscoll’s on Song of Solomon comes to mind). The Bible is always subtle when it comes to the actual act of sex and I think we do well to follow that example.

62. Sarah R.
October 29, 2009
1:12 PM

In your comment about the feminist writer, you said that feminism gave her no recourse to feelings of being sexually used by men—but this is wrong, and reflects a shallow understanding of feminism.

Feminism provides the greatest recourse of all, which is to give women a voice in their own relationships. If she’s unsatisfied with her relationships, a feminist view would encourage her to speak up and communicate instead of enduring it silently, wondering what’s wrong.

Unfortunately, the writer you used as an example is not a very good example of a feminist, and I hope that your readers don’t come away thinking of feminism as an excuse to throw one’s body around willy-nilly without regard to consequences.

63. Michael
October 29, 2009
1:49 PM

Interesting discussion. Came over from The Point blog. Glad I did. What I find fascinating is that I know everything that’s mentioned here, all the down sides of porn, why we shouldn’t view it, and yet none of that was enough for me to overcome my attraction to it. And I personally didn’t experience many of the down sides to it, except shame and distancing myself from my relationship from God.

Bad enough, I know, but it’s hard to turn away from something you like. I never treated my wife like a porn star. I never got increasingly addicted. It’s not something I HAD to do, it’s something I liked to do. I also never grew increasingly attracted to a wider array of sex. What was disgusting to me 10 or 20 years ago, is still disgusting to me. One down side I should mention is what porn makes a wife feel like when she knows her husband “likes” it. She feels inadequate and betrayed in a way. I never viewed it with her, but she knew. I believe women will always be somewhat insecure in their relationships, but porn doesn’t help.

But I don’t tell all this to say anything talked about here is not legitimate, only that it didn’t work for me. But something did, and I can never view porn the same again. It was so powerful to me that I literally can never “like” porn again. The illusion of consequences free sex, i.e. porn, was torn from me forever.

It was simply something I read at xxx.church.com about women not enjoying making porn movies, which lead me to Shelly Lubben’s Myspace page. She’s an ex-porn star and now she minsters to women who want to get out of “the industry.” You watch some of those videos of ex-porn stars, and watch Shelly’s testimony, and you tell me porn is just a bunch of people having a good time. Porn is abuse of women, pure and simple, and every “actress” is a woman who is dysfunctional in some way. It uses women for male fantasies. Porn is for men, because men want women to be sexually like men, and thus porn has to destroy a woman’s nature to have her act like she enjoys having sex in front of a camera. Even one click supports the abuse of women, and I just can’t do it anymore.

64. Jim Martin
October 30, 2009
11:44 AM

Tim,
A very good and important post. Thanks for taking the time to develop this series. Much damage has come to new marriages because of this issue.

65. Chris Poblete
October 31, 2009
1:44 AM

Tim,

I seriously love this blog. You can bet that I will be sharing this with a lot of dudes my age, and I will surely profit from this series myself.

Thanks again, man!
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1. Chelsey
October 26, 2009
9:19 AM

Thanks so much for this series. I’ve been married about six months and while I’m a female, I’m definitely looking forward to hearing more about this topic from an older saint who has much more wisdom than I or my husband do.

2. Dan
October 26, 2009
9:30 AM

I grew up like you did, in the pre-internet days, but I caught on fast after that and almost ruined everything. That’s as much as I’ll admit in this forum, but let me tell you that detox is much worse after you’re married than before, so I hope that your younger readers take you up on your offer of this sort of mentorship-by-distance and learn from you.

I’m very humbled by your post and I look forward to learning more from you myself.

3. Drew K
October 26, 2009
10:00 AM

Kudos to you Tim for taking on this important and pervasive issue. It is not fun but necessary partof the Lord purifying His church.

4. marriagejunkie
October 26, 2009
10:32 AM

Spot on! Going to RT on Twitter and link on the site for my book, Before “I Do”. (http://fullmarriageexperience.com) A real concern for young (and old) marriages and an issue to address for most young grooms to know about. Kudos and thanks!

5. Candice
October 26, 2009
10:36 AM

Tim, thanks for taking on this topic. I know as a wife affected by porn that it is a powerful tool that the enemy loves to use to tear down men and tear the hearts of their wives apart, too. Satan loves to whisper to men that it will only affect them, and that they aren’t hurting anyone but themselves. I look forward to reading your series that is setting out to debunk that lie.

6. Anonymous
October 26, 2009
10:54 AM

so are your next articles going to list out a “sexual detox” program?

7. Alan
October 26, 2009
10:56 AM

This was good, and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. One thing I would add goes right in line with the major points of this post.

Once the pornstar expectations are placed on a wife, and she comes up short, it leads to more involvement in pornography to fill the void left by the non-pornstar wife. This only deepens the problem all the way around. The sin goes further, and the expectations become greater on the wife, who will have a harder time fulfilling these new expectations. And on and on it goes.

The whole thing seems so harmless at the very first, and yet it is so incredibly lethal to a person’s soul and marriage—if not more.

8. Dave Dunbar
October 26, 2009
11:00 AM

It is right to carefully address an insidious attack by the enemy upon Christians. Thank you, Tim.

One of the things that men need to remember is the pictures aren’t “real”. What I mean is that our standard of beauty is falsely affected by the parade of perfect bodies on TV, movies, etc. Even then, what percentage of pictures are photo-shopped? In other words, the perfect pictures have been altered, and do not reflect reality.

Or in the case of movies, the women involved in vile acts ACT like they enjoy it, but they are paid actresses (or porn stars, or whatever), and their false enjoyment of degrading activities in no way indicates that an honest and holy wife would enjoy such defilement of the marriage bed.

Please keep up the good work on this series of articles. Just taking a guess, this could become a popular and widely-read (and helpful!) series.

9. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
11:07 AM

so are your next articles going to list out a “sexual detox” program?

Pretty much. Then plan is to replace truth with lies.

Once the pornstar expectations are placed on a wife, and she comes up short, it leads to more involvement in pornography to fill the void left by the non-pornstar wife. This only deepens the problem all the way around. The sin goes further, and the expectations become greater on the wife, who will have a harder time fulfilling these new expectations. And on and on it goes.

Exactly so. This is the consistent pattern of sin, isn’t it? It spirals, it twists, it is never satisfied.

10. BigNorm
October 26, 2009
11:18 AM

Great Post.

As a newly-wed, we fought hard for a blank canvas to build our marriage on, including keeping the bedroom pure.

Divine innovation and creativity is the ONLY way to go for marriage.

Loving it.
N

11. Matthew
October 26, 2009
11:30 AM

“Pornography is inherently violent, inherently unloving. It is a perversion of sexuality, not a true form of it, and one that teaches violence and degradation at the expense of mutual pleasure and intimacy. It is about conquests, about conquering.”

I think you might be looking at the wrong kind of porn. There is some good stuff out there that is not violent or degrading. Don’t let the bad stuff spoil you on the rest.

Pornography and masturbation can have a role in a healthy marriage. It is very unlikely that you and your spouse will have the same appetite: allowing one of you to have some extra release can reduce the pressure on the other to perform when not in the mood.

12. Mike D
October 26, 2009
11:33 AM

Scripture itself teaches the bondage that sexual sin brings. After speaking of the sin of adultery and of some of the repurcussions (Proverbs 5), Solomon adds the following (v. 22)…”he will be HELD with the CORDS of his sin.”

There is an enslaving nature attached to sexual sin. By God’s grace I have been kept from it in large measure, but I have seen it wrap its tenticals around many a man and not relinquish. There is a reason that Solomon also says or the adulteress in verse 5 of that same chapter, “Her feet go down to death, her steps lay hold of hell.”

I am glad you are talking about it, Tim. But please encourage FATHERS to do their duty as watchmen upon the city wall - warning their children of this decieitful enemy. It is time for men, as heads of their households, to call sin what it is, and to be as the angel with the flaming sword, not allowing his family or his friends down that path, God giving him help. This duty should also be pressed upon SHEPHERDS of the flock of God, that they might watch over the souls that God has put under their charge.

May God give you help as you seek to chart a course - faithfully dealing with prevailing sin and men’s souls AND yet not giving such detail and content as would prove a carnal feast to our remaining flesh.

Matt. 11:12…”the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.” May God give us grace to do battle. It is a war. May God give us grace to deal ruthlessly with our remaining sin and the sin that so easily besets us. May we be willing to go to all extremes to be rid of it - even to such extremes as represented by an eye plucked out and a hand cut off. As Christ said, such extremes might be necessary if we would enter heaven.

13. Rodica
October 26, 2009
11:35 AM

what about writing a book on this topic? Haven’t seen a good book to recommend to someone with this problem. The book shelves may have many books on pre-marriage and marriage counseling yet I have not seen one that focuses squarely on this topic. Can you suggest any?

14. Ken Davis
October 26, 2009
11:37 AM

“I want to talk to young men as an older man … my thirty-three years…” - Well - you’re older than somebody.

15. Bonnie
October 26, 2009
11:40 AM

Thank you for addressing this topic. From my vantage point (being of a certain age, married 22 years, with a teenaged son), I wonder whether ubiquitous p*rn has simply ramped up something that men are already tempted toward. Even without taking it to base extremes, and absent p*rn, a young man can still develop a selfish sexual view toward women. Later he might be unloving and subtly degrading to his wife because he views her as a means to satisfy his fantasies rather than someone to relate with.

I think it’s important that young men, from the time they are small children, learn to view others, especially their female peers, in terms of relationship as fellow human beings, rather than objects of any type, sexual or otherwise. They need to be guided to learn how to express themselves properly across the board, so that they will be able to do so properly sexually as well, when the time comes. And yes, parents need to talk to their kids about sex, from an early age and age-appropriately, so they grow up to hold it in proper regard.

In this way, when temptation comes, they have strong values to hold onto, and character training from an early age which has strengthened them.

16. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
11:42 AM

I think you might be looking at the wrong kind of porn. There is some good stuff out there that is not violent or degrading. Don’t let the bad stuff spoil you on the rest.

Matthew - the foundational “badness” in pornography is not the violence. Pornography is bad simply because already it inflames the heart to adultery. Jesus says that adultery is not simply the act of sleeping with another person, but is as much as a lustful thought about another person. It is impossible to watch pornography and not be incited to lust. The whole point of pornography, even pornography that is “normal” as opposed to violent, is to incite sin.

Pornography and masturbation can have a role in a healthy marriage. It is very unlikely that you and your spouse will have the same appetite: allowing one of you to have some extra release can reduce the pressure on the other to perform when not in the mood.

Let’s just call this what it is—a man’s justification to look at porn and masturbate. Why even bother rationalizing?

17. Christina
October 26, 2009
11:47 AM

Thank you for taking this topic on. Until the church starts addressing these issues with the gospel of Jesus Christ we can have no hope that our culture will change. I look forward to this series.

18. Polarbear
October 26, 2009
12:12 PM

Thank you Tim for this post and I look forward to the series this week. This pornification of the marriage bed is perhaps the number one tool that the enemy is using to destroy Christian marriages.

Matthew, I am praying for you man.

19. Jerry
October 26, 2009
12:29 PM

Greetings,
I am excited about this series and will send the link to everyone I know. I think that this topic is of the utmost importance. There should be more conversations about this issue in our local churches. Maybe this will get some to start talking about it.

20. Eddy Alexandre
October 26, 2009
12:51 PM

I will be waiting…

21. Jerod
October 26, 2009
1:00 PM

Great post Tim. This is a deadly sin that so many times stays hidden and is not discussed. Church culture needs to change so that it’s ok to not be ok. Otherwise we will continue to hide sin and not find healing from it.

I hid for a long time. Bringing it to light by talking about it and confessing is extremely difficult, but the only place to find freedom and healing from it. (James 5:16) God forgives, and it’s through confession to one another we find healing!

22. Tom W.
October 26, 2009
1:29 PM

Wow, Matthew. That whole approach is wrong on so many levels; to add to Tim’s reply, consider this verse in your approach to sexual intimacy with your wife:
“Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; “
(Philippians 2:3)

23. Mike D
October 26, 2009
1:41 PM

Rodica…

…you asked about a good book on this subject.

I would recommend a small book by Randy Alcorn entitled…
The Purity Principle: God’s Safeguards for Life’s Dangerous Trails (LifeChange Books).

If you want an excerpt from the book, you can go here…
http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/Randys_books_excerpts_from_Randys_books/Chapter_5_and_6_from_the_Purity_Principle.shtml

It is a small book and an easy read. I hope this helps…

24. Kath
October 26, 2009
1:44 PM

Please, please don’t overlook that this is a very serious issue for women too, too often men in the church have at this point in the porn conversation effectively told women to close their ears because this won’t affect them. The thing is it does. It’s a real and even more taboo struggle for many women who feel unable to be honest about all this because so many people hold the expectation that only men struggle with this. I’m tired of hearing pastors tell me that only the men should listen at these point. Women struggle in this area. Sure, we may struggle differently but it is no less pervasive and all the more dangerous because it’s a whole lot more harder to be honest about it.

25. Josh Reich
October 26, 2009
1:45 PM

Great post.

I just preached a message in a marriage series on pornography and what it does in a marriage. To go with that, my wife and I wrote on how a wife can handle her husband’s addiction and how to find healing: http://missionalthoughts.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/how-a-wife-handles-her-husbands-sexual-addiction/. This comes out of our personal experience and our story and how it shaped our marriage.

Looking forward to the rest of the series.

26. An Honest Question
October 26, 2009
2:14 PM

very needed stuff. excellent post. I would be interested, however, how you develop “right sex” from “porn star sex” in marriage. in Song of Solomon the couple seem to delight in pleasing one another, and she even dresses to delight his eyes. you mention “face to face intimacy” as if any other kind of sexual position might be wrong.

asking your wife to act like a porn star is obviously wrong but just what are the rules? if it delights a husband for his wife to wear “frilly pajamas” (so to speak!) is that wrong of him to ask her to do so? if the wife likes a man with a beard is it wrong for her to ask him to grow one? just how far is one obligated to go to bring sexual pleasure to their mate? I think that is an area a lot of marriage could use some help with. hope you will be able to address that.

27. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
2:18 PM

asking your wife to act like a porn star is obviously wrong but just what are the rules?

I am planning on covering some of that in a couple of days. There is a bit of ground work first, but we’ll get there.

you mention “face to face intimacy” as if any other kind of sexual position might be wrong.

I don’t mean to be a prude! I more just mean that there are things you can do in sex that personalize it (even without being nose-to-nose) and others that de-personalize it.

28. Grace
October 26, 2009
2:46 PM

Tim,

Looking forward to reading more!

29. Anonymous
October 26, 2009
2:46 PM

Thanks Kath for bringing to light that women struggle too. I am thankful Tim is addressing this issue.

30. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
2:49 PM

Please, please don’t overlook that this is a very serious issue for women too, too often men in the church have at this point in the porn conversation effectively told women to close their ears because this won’t affect them. The thing is it does.

I have purposely targeted this series to young men because I feel that I understand young men. I am not far removed from being one myself. I have infinitely less experience being a young woman so I hesitate to speak out about such things. However, I do think much of what I say will apply either way. If pornography is shaping a man’s expectation of his wife, it will also shape a wife’s expectation of her husband. And in either case, the solution will be to repent of sin and to replace sin with truth. So do stay tuned. I hope you’ll find the rest of the series relevant.

31. Neil King
October 26, 2009
3:08 PM

Like many others who have already commented, I really appreciate that you’re dealing with this issue, Tim. It’s the area of my life where I can mostly sympathise with Paul when he cries out ‘Who will save me from this body of death?’

In a way, I can thank God for the struggles I have with sexual sin. Obviously, this isn’t because He gave me these evil desires, which is a blasphemous idea to contemplate, but rather that I am constantly struggling with them rather than having them removed, because I truly know that my strength in overcoming sexual sin can only come from Him alone, and not from my own efforts. It is a constant reminder for me that the Christian life is not a holiday; rather it is a day-by-day, hour-by-hour, minute-by-minute struggle that we cannot hope to succeed in without God’s grace and mercy.

32. Rodica
October 26, 2009
4:31 PM

Mike D.
thanks for the book recommendation. After scanning the excerpt, I found it to be a very useful book to read, and to pass along to the young men and women in my family life.

…also, planning on passing on the full text of this article series , once complete, to family and friends. I agree with all other comments that speaking truth on this issue, at this time, is very warranted and very welcome.

33. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
4:34 PM

“Pornography is bad simply because already it inflames the heart to adultery.”

I’d blame the heart so inflamed, not the fuel.

If it weren’t porn leading to adultery, it’d be something else.

Until one can control vices, no matter the form, one is in danger of being weak and suspect, hypocritical and wicked… all while blaming the vice instead of one’s own character.

34. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
5:00 PM

I’d blame the heart so inflamed, not the fuel.

While I know what you are getting at, that is a bit of a silly line to take, I think. I’ll grant that pornography is not morally culpable (porn has no soul, will not go to hell, etc) it is still evil simply because it distorts and perverts. It is a medium used to share evil.

35. Tim Irvin
October 26, 2009
5:19 PM

I have to agree, whole-heartedly, with Daniel (#33). A man isn’t a thief because he steals, he steals because he is a thief already in his heart.
Any married person who turns to porn, even if they say they’re just curious, is doing so because adultery is already in their heart.
Discussion is not what is needed. Reproof is what is needed.
Ephesians 5:11-12

36. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
5:26 PM

“[Porn] is a medium used to share evil.”

With all due respect, Tim, so is religion. So what?

37. mark
October 26, 2009
5:27 PM

nice try on I’d blame the heart so inflame, not the fuel.”

however porn has no legit use of any kind. it’s express purpose is to incite lust. thus it can be blamed because there is no good thing to be said for it.

and while certainly granting that a heart that is not right with God will find other avenues of sin it is foolish to think that we can’t help the problem by pointing out how depraved this “fuel” really is, and all the effects that come from “consuming” it.

38. Anonymous, please
October 26, 2009
5:38 PM

As a redeemed sinner, one who - pre-conversion - became a feminist “out of necessity”, feeling abandoned by a husband who acted as if I were there to support him and be a playtoy at the same time, and then he would wondered why I began to shudder every time he even touched my shoulder, with both of us investigating what could be wrong with ME and why I was suddenly so frigid; and after the divorce, learning that I was anything but frigid, but became a misandrist due to exactly this sort of thing, I can recall lamenting that it seemed that men got their sex education from the skin flicks. There is nothing more dehumanizing than to be expected to live up to that expectation, and to have all sense of worth and value placed upon my ability to perform in that manner. The sheer selfishness inherent in that kind of mindset destroys women, it destroys marriages, and it destroys families.

39. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
5:46 PM

@mark (37.) :

How nice it must be to eradicate one’s life of all inciters and stimulus. :)

I can imagine a life worth living here on planet earth with no lust, no thirst, no desire to escape, no groove to satiate one’s need to grind on the dancefloor, no poetry to open a soul nor images to affect a heart, no food on which to gorge oneself.

Oh, wait… no I can’t.

“Porn” is what you make of it… one man’s porn is another man’s marital aid. One man’s joint is another man’s nausea helpmate. One man’s celebratory feast is another’s gluttonous escapade. One man’s justified vindication is another’s cold-blooded murder. The vice/method/tool/path is not evil. A man’s heart can be. Can be.

40. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
5:54 PM

@Anonymous, please (38.) :

“There is nothing more dehumanizing than to be expected to live up to that expectation, and to have all sense of worth and value placed upon my ability to perform in that manner.”

While your personal story is, indeed, sad and regrettable… there are more than a few experiences more dehumanizing than being expected perform like a porn star.

Just off the top of my head : think of being sold as a child sex slave; actual rape; or, you know, enjoying a spontaneous, free, and unplanned vacation in Dachau or Auschwitz circa 1939.

41. Tim Challies
October 26, 2009
6:03 PM

Daniel - You’ve made your view well known. I think it’s probably a good idea for you to back off a bit now. You aren’t going to convince people here of what you’re saying.

42. Daniel Holter
October 26, 2009
6:05 PM

@Tim :

fair enough… all meant in the interest of honest discussion, please know that. :)

I’ll still be reading, with interest.

43. Anonymous, please
October 26, 2009
6:51 PM

Daniel,

You are correct. It’s the end of a long day, and I surely have misspoken to a degree, though perhaps you don’t know what it is to participate in some very dark situations just to please someone enough to keep a roof over your head (again, pre-conversion). But the coldness and callousness that comes through in your response to me is exactly the kind of attitude that makes it very clear that you don’t get it, and that you clearly have no desire to. As a result of all this, I was once quite heavily involved in the whole thing, not realizing it then but after a couple of decades of that kind of expectation, my attractiveness to the opposite sex and my ability to gain and hold their interest in that way was the only place I had any sense of any kind of worth - and I hated it, and I hated men because of it. One thing I think a lot of men really don’t understand, is the reality of the anatomy of it. Physically, it is an external act for you; for a woman it is internal; we are literally taking another person into ourselves.

Reading through this discussion thread, the one thing that stands out to me more than anything is that we in our flesh will do anything we can to justify our sin and hold onto our idols, muddying up the clear counsel of God on the matter of sin (if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out - so it doesn’t matter if your lust makes you look at porn, or your porn causes you to lust, it’s all sin, so just throw out the porn and seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.)

It wasn’t until recently, since Christ saved me (just last year!) that I have come to see a glorious picture of the Gospel in God’s design for the marriage relationship, and while I do believe that I am not a candidate for dating/marriage given the words of Christ, I love its design and I pray for the marriages of those around me. Here’s the thing I see - If marriage is intended to be a reflection of the relationship between Christ and His church (His Bride), and the intimacy involved in that is intended to be a reflection of the unity between Christ and Christians (John 17) just as it is a reflection of the unity within in the Trinity, and if the covenant of marriage is intended to reflect the covenant between God and His people, then any turning away to satisfy the flesh in a cheapened version of the real thing just - to me - makes porn look like a golden calf, or maybe Asherim. It is not for no reason that God calls it adultery when His people turn to the world and to the flesh instead of to Himself, and He calls out lust as adultery, and I think too of the fact that Christ loves His Bride, He gave Himself up for her, He died for her, and if one’s spouse is a part of that Bride, and you’re (I say “you” in a general way) abusing that relationship (or that spouse) in that way, choosing to sow to the flesh rather than to the Spirit when intimacy is not possible, or if there is a refusal to submit to one another, then there is Another who is angry at you, whether the other spouse is (yet) or not.


44. DR
October 26, 2009
7:15 PM

Mark Driscoll wrote on this subject - Porn Again Christian - downloadable or read online. http://relit.org/porn_again_christian/

May you be given wisdom Tim to stick to scripture and grace on this subject and be succinct.

At 33yo I would not say you are an old man - you’re still young!

45. Mike Toreno
October 26, 2009
7:33 PM

I’m glad you wrote this, your view of the effects of pornography is so true! I don’t have any problem with pornography, but I have experienced an analogous issue. Last year I started watching Bollywood movies, and they have caused me to bring unrealistic expectations to my everyday experiences. Now, whenever any kind of significant event happens, I am disappointed whenever a group of singers and dancers fails to converge and put on a big production number. Just as with pornography, my viewing of Bollywood pictures has caused me to become dissatisfied with ordinary life. And it’s just the same whatever anyone reads, hears, or views. A lot of my friends read “Arabian Nights” and are now dissatisfied with ordinary, non-flying carpets.

46. Yooper
October 26, 2009
7:51 PM

Despite popular belief, there is no such thing as safe sin.

47. kitchen table
October 26, 2009
10:05 PM

I also grew up in the pre-internet days. Sex in my teenage years is not as easy as it is now. And internet has been a big factor for that. We thought what we are doing are not sinful because it is like everybody is doing it, too.

48. ANON
October 26, 2009
11:23 PM

A few observations Tim:
1. Please think of another name for this series. “Sexual Detox” sounds so humanistic and ‘program’ orientated. There is nothing wrong with appropriately expressed God - given human sexuality, within the confines of marriage. In fact it’s a wonderful blessing! Sexual expression within marriage needs no “detox”. For young men (and maybe women) who find themselves addicted to porn or whatever tickles their lust of the flesh … have done with sin!

2. You want to speak to young men you say … well let me tell you that some of us here are older men who have struggled all our Christian lives with the temptations of lust, of committing fornication with the eyes and our minds, of abusing our bodies, of misusing the organs meant for sexual pleasure for our wives and ourselves within the marital bed. The locusts have eaten the years which should have been spent with the wife of one’s youth and given them the second best.

3. The sins of the flesh are rampant but well concealed from one another within the church. I sometimes wonder as I hear some great preacher-teacher whether they too are beset with the same sins we’re taking about here. Having preached - do they then go home to secretly view porn somewhere? (Actually I have heard mature Christian business men - one a Christian bookseller admit that they have to work so hard to keep their mind-heart in check when away from their wife - once it was the temptation of a playboy at the newsagent, for another watching porn movies in the hotel whilst they were away…)

4. The devil wants all Christians dead…. he wanted Adam and Eve dead and he many a Christian man, he has made dead (in ministry and marriage and godliness).


If you are a young man (or woman) - this sounds like a “must read” series and may God give us all grace, and may we be men (and women) of conviction to do that which is right. have done with sin! His grace is sufficient!

49. Jennifer
October 27, 2009
1:56 AM

To Annon, please
I am praising the Lord for the work He has done in you and in your life! He is so good and merciful! I loved your words and hope you keep contributing.
To Tim
Thank you so much for putting your eloquence to this difficult subject. We have three boys and a girl and need to hear what you have to say. I will be praying for you as you craft these posts.
God Bless you.

50. J. B. Hood
October 27, 2009
8:52 AM

Tim,

What is the feminist writer who noted the pornification of sex in the men she was with, and where was that article?

Thanks

51. C
October 27, 2009
10:13 AM

I would like to address Daniel. Porn is indeed evil. It work solely to give people sexual (and not at all spiritual) release one-on-one, when sex is designed to be communion.
Calling out think about all the worse things like rape and child abuse and genocide… that is absurd. Absolutely absurd and pardon, but I would hope you try to purge your soul of the devil working through you.This is an important discussion for everyone to hear, and your comments through it seek only to protect the sin everyone struggles against.
What would you say to a woman who has been sexually assaulted and raped, but not killed? “Don’t focus on that, because it has been a lot worse for others?” That is the same as saying porn is not bad when you look at everything else bad in the world. For shame.
And porn and masturbation are not ok. I have been in the mood when he is not, and I wait or relive in my mind memories that belong to the two of us. To tun to another avenue and leave him out of such a beautiful thing, and to create for me a sexual memory that excludes him, would be to cheat on him and on God, and is wrong.

As for sex itself, when everyone was talking on face-to-face etc, I can speak from personal experience on that. There are a myriad of positions and acts, but when each one is a gift that you give to each other, you feel as pure and whole if you face a pillow or are under covers as when you face each other. The sex acts are acts of love, and when you truly love your partner (or man for me, since I’m a woman), any of them feel like gifts. If it didn’t, you would feel dirty whenever an act was pleasuring one or the other of you, and it doesn’t. If you’re the one giving, the act turns you on as well because you know what you give and how much you light him up, and when he gives to you you know its from the heart and it feels that way. I always feel like a beacon at the close of our sessions, and very close to God, and I think that’s the purpose, to honor and fulfill one another in the eyes of God.

I don’t know if you can post this Tim, since I suppose I’m mildly graphic, but I think it’s important to let people know.

A good standard, for me, I remember telling my younger brother when he got his first girlfriend and was struggling with where the line was, I told him to only do what you were comfortable with God knowing you’re doing. God has to be present.

The sexual relationship- God gave it to us, and it should be held in highest esteem and regard, not degraded and perverted by the obscene and base in pornography.

The same act in a willing marriage partnership and in porn would be entirely different, because one is a mutual glorification, and one a degradation.

52. Brian Roden
October 27, 2009
11:43 AM

Some books to recommend:

The Game Plan: The Men’s 30-Day Strategy for Attaining Sexual Integrity by Joe Dallas
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Plan-Strategy-Attaining-Integrity/dp/0849906334/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256658066&sr=8-4

At the Altar of Sexual Idolatry by Steve Gallagher
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Plan-Strategy-Attaining-Integrity/dp/0849906334/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256658066&sr=8-4

Think Before You Look: 40 Powerful Reasons to Avoid Pornography by Daniel Henderson
http://www.amazon.com/Think-Before-You-Look-Pornography/dp/0899571646/ref=pd_sim_b_1

53. Traylor Lovvorn
October 27, 2009
3:19 PM

Tim-

Thank you for this wonderful post and for addressing the growing epidemic coming at the Church like a tsunami. In my experience, the Church has not talked enough about sex and therefore has created a vacuum that has allowed most of our education about sex to come, as you say, from the pornographers.

The silence of the Church and unwillingness to talk frankly about this subject has robbed many couples of a proper understanding of sex in their relationship. In a series of articles that have come out over the last few months, many Church leaders are even proposing that the solution is to encourage marriage at an earlier age. The sentiment seems to be that if we get kids married earlier then they’ll get to have sex and we won’t have to live with the tension of how to properly address the issue.

I am a recovering sex addict who lost my wife and family after 11 years of marriage because of my addiction. After six years of divorce, God miraculously reconciled my ex wife and I. (Our Story) I facilitate a sexual addiction recovery group and work with many couples and individuals who are living in the pain and brokenness that this epidemic brings.

I look forward to reading your upcoming posts and appreciate you dealing head-on with this all important topic!

Traylor

54. Brad
October 27, 2009
3:33 PM

“Pornography and masturbation can have a role in a healthy marriage. It is very unlikely that you and your spouse will have the same appetite: allowing one of you to have some extra release can reduce the pressure on the other to perform when not in the mood.”

Matthew - can I humbly encourage you to read this article: http://ccef.org/its-all-about-me-problem-masturbation. It really challenged my thinking on the subject, and specifically addresses your scenario.

55. Melanie
October 27, 2009
3:54 PM

Where I live when a man is arrested for picking up a prostitute he is sent to “John School” where he will hear the first hand testimony of former prostitutes that they do not enjoy their trade. It is a BIG, BOLD, LIE to believe that women working in any form of the sex trade are there by choice and because they like it. An overwhelming amount of those women were molested as young girls and have been abused and used their whole lives.
Annie Lobert shares her story on her site (http://www.hookersforjesus.net/anniestestimony.cfm):
“Sex for money is NOT pleasurable, it is NOT fun, us girls DO NOT enjoy it—in fact there were many times I just wanted to hurt the man that was touching me! … I had to be the best actress all of time just to make sure I got paid—men actually thought I enjoyed what I did. How could men think this? It was a flat out LIE! This is SEXUAL ABUSE in its worst form—a jail cell of your mind….Many times I just wanted to die when I went to sleep at night after I worked, I felt so dirty, sleazy—I felt had no way out—because…who would actually RESPECT me or let alone LOVE ME if they found out what I did for a living?”

56. J.P.H.
October 28, 2009
10:52 AM

Melanie- While I’m certainly not going to disagree with you on whether prostitutes “enjoy” the actual act of prostituting themselves, I do think some folks do it “by choice”. I recently read an article about a phenomenon in Hong Kong where high school age girls are prostituting themselves for money to buy clothes, fancy cell phones, etc. If the article is to be believed, they aren’t from the demographic one would normally expect prostitutes to come from. They’re middle class, stable family situation, etc. And not all of them become “career prostitutes”.

After some digging, here’s the article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/09/24/hongkong.teenage.prostitution/

57. Daniel Holter
October 28, 2009
2:42 PM

@ C (51.) :

Thanks for your response, but I think it’s safe we say we’ll disagree on just about everything regarding the issue at hand. I’ll respect Tim’s wishes and not further a discussion that will likely run (far) off course from his intended topic.

I’m curious, though, how I might “try to purge [my] soul of the devil working through [me].” If you want to pray for me, feel free… or to offer some advice directly, you can reach me by clicking my name.

58. Tim Challies
October 28, 2009
4:16 PM

While I’m certainly not going to disagree with you on whether prostitutes “enjoy” the actual act of prostituting themselves, I do think some folks do it “by choice”.

There are definitely some of both. I would think that the vast majority are in it through force or through perceived necessity (“I have to feed my kids somehow…” or “I need to earn money to support my habit…”). The percentage who would be in it fully voluntarily would be very small. And even then I suspect many of them would come from backgrounds that, in one way or another, would have nudged them toward it, perhaps through abuse or another factor. Prostitution is just so far from God’s design for women that it takes a remarkable hardening of God-given feminine instincts for a women to give herself to it and to enjoy it.

59. Brian
October 28, 2009
5:51 PM

Tim, can you expand on what you mean when you say

I want to be forthright with you and yet I also want to be discreet; I often think we, as Christians, talk entirely too much about sex and in too much detail.

On the face of it I have an exactly opposite view and would love to know what you’re referring to here.

60. Jake Aharonian
October 29, 2009
1:26 AM

JB—I think you mean the article by Naomi Wolf http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/

61. Tim Challies
October 29, 2009
9:00 AM

I want to be forthright with you and yet I also want to be discreet; I often think we, as Christians, talk entirely too much about sex and in too much detail.

Well, maybe the first part isn’t entirely true. Sometimes I think that we talk about it too much these days (e.g. all these sex sermon series being preached in churches today). And I am definitely convinced we often do so in too much detail (and here a series like Driscoll’s on Song of Solomon comes to mind). The Bible is always subtle when it comes to the actual act of sex and I think we do well to follow that example.

62. Sarah R.
October 29, 2009
1:12 PM

In your comment about the feminist writer, you said that feminism gave her no recourse to feelings of being sexually used by men—but this is wrong, and reflects a shallow understanding of feminism.

Feminism provides the greatest recourse of all, which is to give women a voice in their own relationships. If she’s unsatisfied with her relationships, a feminist view would encourage her to speak up and communicate instead of enduring it silently, wondering what’s wrong.

Unfortunately, the writer you used as an example is not a very good example of a feminist, and I hope that your readers don’t come away thinking of feminism as an excuse to throw one’s body around willy-nilly without regard to consequences.

63. Michael
October 29, 2009
1:49 PM

Interesting discussion. Came over from The Point blog. Glad I did. What I find fascinating is that I know everything that’s mentioned here, all the down sides of porn, why we shouldn’t view it, and yet none of that was enough for me to overcome my attraction to it. And I personally didn’t experience many of the down sides to it, except shame and distancing myself from my relationship from God.

Bad enough, I know, but it’s hard to turn away from something you like. I never treated my wife like a porn star. I never got increasingly addicted. It’s not something I HAD to do, it’s something I liked to do. I also never grew increasingly attracted to a wider array of sex. What was disgusting to me 10 or 20 years ago, is still disgusting to me. One down side I should mention is what porn makes a wife feel like when she knows her husband “likes” it. She feels inadequate and betrayed in a way. I never viewed it with her, but she knew. I believe women will always be somewhat insecure in their relationships, but porn doesn’t help.

But I don’t tell all this to say anything talked about here is not legitimate, only that it didn’t work for me. But something did, and I can never view porn the same again. It was so powerful to me that I literally can never “like” porn again. The illusion of consequences free sex, i.e. porn, was torn from me forever.

It was simply something I read at xxx.church.com about women not enjoying making porn movies, which lead me to Shelly Lubben’s Myspace page. She’s an ex-porn star and now she minsters to women who want to get out of “the industry.” You watch some of those videos of ex-porn stars, and watch Shelly’s testimony, and you tell me porn is just a bunch of people having a good time. Porn is abuse of women, pure and simple, and every “actress” is a woman who is dysfunctional in some way. It uses women for male fantasies. Porn is for men, because men want women to be sexually like men, and thus porn has to destroy a woman’s nature to have her act like she enjoys having sex in front of a camera. Even one click supports the abuse of women, and I just can’t do it anymore.

64. Jim Martin
October 30, 2009
11:44 AM

Tim,
A very good and important post. Thanks for taking the time to develop this series. Much damage has come to new marriages because of this issue.

65. Chris Poblete
October 31, 2009
1:44 AM

Tim,

I seriously love this blog. You can bet that I will be sharing this with a lot of dudes my age, and I will surely profit from this series myself.

Thanks again, man!